Cardi B and Mariah Carey have a candid conversation about celebrity and humanity.

Cardi, 28, and Carey, 50, caught up for Interview magazine and picked each other’s brains. Carey starts by offering praise to Cardi for how she’s handled fame, before diving into celebrity relationships.

“You’ve settled into the whole celebrity thing,” says Carey. “In terms of connecting with other artists, are there people you’ve met and had great relationships with? Like, they’re cool and you became friends. And then are there situations where you’re like, ‘Well, I guess I could have been friends with this person if they hadn’t acted such and such a way?’ I’ve noticed that in my life.”

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“A lot of celebrities invite me to places, but I’m really shy,” responds Cardi. “We’re doing this over the phone, but if it was in person, I wouldn’t be able to look you in the eyes. That’s how nervous I get around celebrities. And sometimes my head starts talking, like, ‘Oh my gosh, I look stupid, I feel stupid, I’m dumb.'”

Carey can relate to Cardi’s anxieties: “We all do that.”

The “WAP” and “Up” rapper reveals she has maintained the same inner circle on her rise to stardom and her weariness of fake celebrities.

“I’ve always had the same friends. I’m very loyal. If I’m your friend, I’m going to always ride hard for you,” she says. “But if you don’t ride hard for me or you do some funny s**t, I’m going to feel a certain type of way. My husband [Offset] always tries to tell me, ‘You can’t think like that because you’ve got to network and this is not real life. You got to understand that.'”

Carey offers Cardi some wisdom on the difference between work friends and personal friends.

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“We’re all just people, but this business can make certain celebrities into different people,” says Carey. “I expect everybody to be real with me. Do you think that the business has changed you or have you seen it change other people who you may have known before they came up?”

“That’s why I stay away from people,” Cardi replies, “My fans want me to interact with more artists, but if I love their music, I don’t want to meet them because I don’t want to hate them.”

Cardi is currently working on her sophomore studio album. She reveals she felt pressure to rush the release, but says she feels like there are pieces missing.